Goldilocks problem, EAM on US-China collaboration

Jaishankar said that further collaboration between different countries, like US and China was like a Goldilocks problem.

"And then even worse, deep collaboration between US and China and being at the wrong end of it. So, you know, neither situation for us. So it's kind of like a Goldilocks problem, you know. So you want, ideally, a kind of an optimal situation. They're not going to oblige the rest of the world," he said.

He said that everything was personal, and the dynamics were not just about trade anymore," he said.

"It's going to be much harder because in the past we could insulate sectors, saying, you know, this doesn't matter, this is only trade. It's not political, it's not defense, it's not sensitive. I think what is our definition of what is sensitive has expanded. Nothing is only trade anymore. No investments are as purely, you know, nothing is purely business anymore. Everything is also personal," he said.

Jaishankar said that Europe has had the luxury of peace for several decades, and that now its feathers are being ruffled.

"I think we are clearly heading for a period of sharp competition and contestation. And, you know, different countries need to plan for it. That planning is going to be much harder," he said.

Jaishankar said that Europe faces a judgement in the past decades.

"There are gaps. I mean, I am not being diplomatic about it. I mean, often we tend to see a degree of judgmentalism based on Europe's own situation. And so to the extent Europe has had the good fortune of having a certain strategic comfort for multiple decades," he said.

"For a continent we saw so much violence and bloodshed, then you have really 78 years since there have been some issues. What's happening right now in Ukraine is another. But by and large, Europe has enjoyed a period of peace, prosperity, stability, security and complacency, which came out so now, Europe is compelled by global developments to perhaps conceptualize its own interest," he said.

Jaishankar said that the strategic reawakening of Europe created a basis for serious conversations on several subjects.

"I think today, the strategic reawakening of Europe has created the basis for much more serious conversations on many more subjects, especially matters relating to security and strategy, and also the economics. Our experiences are very different. Some of it flows from what I said about Europe. We've actually seen both extremes. For the first few decades after independence, there was very sharp contestation between US and China and getting caught in the middle of it," he said.

"So that world makes it much more complicated, really, to navigate this. But navigate it we must. I think this is actually going to be the predicament for the world, which is to do a more difficult journey with many more obstacles in a much more challenging kind of topography," he added.